Q&A with Luthier Bernie Lehmann by Rick Peters PUBLISHED IN “JUST JAZZ GUITAR” NOVEMBER, 2003 Lehmann Stringed Instruments is located at 34 Elton St. in Rochester, New York. The shop in on the second floor of an old factory building. As you enter the shop, you notice the window on the door is stained glass (made by Bernie). Attached to the door is a long string, which goes back to the workshop and rings a ship's bel that announces your presence. Inside the shop to the left are guitars signed by Lehmann and to the right are many paintings hanging on the wall, also signed Lehmann. (On first impression, this is not your garden variety guitar shop). On another wall hangs a collection of objects, including a guitar with two bodies attached by one neck, and then another guitar that has a rotary telephone diler instead of a sound hole. Feeling a bit uneasy (have I walked into the next Fellini movie?), I pick up one of Bernie's Manouche style instruments, and wow, it really sounds good! With a graceful quick motion, a man enters from the back room and there he is: Bernie Lehmann. With a genuine smile and twinkle in his eyes, he asks: BL: Can I help you? RP: Yes. Hi, Bernie, my name is Rick Peters. I'm here hoping you might be interested in doing an interview for Just Jazz Guitar Magazine sometime. BL: Oh, that sounds great! How 'bout now? RP: Great! We settle back and I turn on the recorder. How did you get started building guitars? BL: I got interested in building guitars when I realized I had more enthusiasm than talent as a player. I loved the music, but I also loved making things. In 1967 I went to visit the Martin Factory with one of my friends. It was a pretty exciting thing to see. RP: Where were they? BL: They were still in their old factory back then. There were a lot of hand operations that they did like shaping necks and inlays, but it was mainly a production woodworking factory. The idea of building guitars didn\rquote t really start to germinate until I had been in college at Syracuse University a few years. I was involved in an industrial design program and got rather disenchanted with the “industrial process”. Everything you built had to consider the manufacturing process, and I was really more interested in making unique things. I wanted something more “hands on”. So I switched to an art-based design program, called experimental design. It was a combination of sculpture, engineering and design. My professor in the program was building a guitar for his son and the entire process captured my imagination. I hadn't really seen a guitar made by hand before. I loved the whole idea and I decided to combine my interests, in art, music and engineering and build stringed instruments. RP: And make guitars. BL: And make guitars, make musical instruments. RP: So you completed your degree at SU and moved to Boston? BL: Yes, I went to Boston and met a fellow named Owen Shaw who was retired and had gone into making violins, classical guitars and baroque instruments. He was moving into a new shop and wanted someone to help share the rent. The timing was just right, and we joined forces to share expenses and tools. I worked for seven years in Boston with Owen and with several other guys my own age at a shop in Arlington, Ma. We were all custom building instruments of our own design. I learned lute building from Joel VanLennep, made steel string and classical guitars, vihuelas, viols da gamba, hundreds of dulcimers, mandolins, rebecs and vielles, psaltrys, banjo necks, and numerous other stringed instruments. What I learned from building this wide array of instruments is how to make strings efficiently drive the enclosed volume of air. Different forms; same rules of tone production. The parking in Boston finally got to me and we decided to move to Rochester where we could buy a house and afford to live a little bit better. RP: You are currently building flat-top guitars, arch-tops,and gypsy guitars. What is your prime focus? I feel your gypsy guitars are the best available. Is that a major focus? BL: I would say these days I really like making the gypsy guitars. They are very challenging and I love the way they sound and look. I haven't nearly explored the artistic potential of these instruments in terms of aesthetic designs. I think structurally I have got them to a point that I really like the sound and the balance. But there is a world of artistic possibilities. RP: How would you explore potentials? What would you do? In terms of wood and body design? BL: I think it is best to start by building the traditional instrument and make incremental changes to the design in order to assess what you have done. You need to find out what is important tonally and structurally, and where are the possibilities for variables. With the Selmer, I wanted to create an instrument that had a richer overtone spectrum that would appeal to a broader community of jazz musicians. The Selmer is by design a brace-arched arch top that possesses incredible volume. I re-designed the bracing system on the top to structurally imitate the graduated thicknessing of a hand graduated carved top guitar. RP: Your gypsy guitars have a wonderful sound and outstanding action. How do they compare with the Selmer? BL: The Selmer and Maccaferri instruments are styled very much along classical guitar lines: rosewood bindings with white/black/white trims around the sides and they have a very conservative look. I am using colored veneer stripes or marquetry around the body; using Koa, Bubinga, quilted mahogany and maple, and other exotic woods for the sides and back, as well as the traditional Brazilian rosewood, maple and mahogany; using exotic wood bindings or plastic striping in various combinations. I've changed the tailpiece from the traditional stamped metal one to a wooden one that I think is visually much nicer and improves the tone. RP: Tell me about the second sound port. BL: The sound port allows the sound to come up into the player's space so he can hear the tone as if he were in front of the instrument. In some guitars, it doesn't seem to change the tone that you hear out in front. In the eclipse model with the small oval hole, it allows the instrument to breathe a when it is played and be a more effective "air pump". You can actually feel the air pumping out of that hole. RP: The difference is very noticeable. If you cover up the sound port and then uncover it, you hear a big difference. BL: Yes, as far as I can tell, it's as close as we get in this life to something for nothing. It doesn't detract at all from the sound in front and it just adds to the player's enjoyment. There is a great deal of freedom of expression within the perameters of a guitar if you are willing to take a design risk. When you make a strong statement, you are putting your taste on the chopping block to be admired or critcized. My Model 2000 guitar uses some ideas I have never seen on modern guitars. Some of the ideas came from Baroque guitars and lutes, and some are my own conceptions. The back of this guitar is constructed similar to a lute or a chittera battente, with nine scalloped and vaulted ribs. The tone is marvelous, but it is decidely unique looking! When I design anything, I make up a sketch of the entire piece, tying trims together, designing something creative around the sound hole, fingerboard inlays that I haven't seen before. I want to make great sounding guitars that are unique and visually pleasing. RP: Tone comes first. BL: Tone is always first. Within that as a basis for design, there are many possibilities in terms of decorative elements. A musical instrument should be a pleasure to look at as well as to play. A truly beautiful object satisgys all our senses. *** but tone is a subjective thing. You know, why don't you see more ebony guitars? I am not really sure. Why aren't there multi-piece backs? You know, Martin, their wild thing was the D35 with a three-piece back. I don't find a good reason why there can't be multiple piece sides, multiple piece backs, mixing of woods. RP: Like the 2000 you mean. Is that what you would consider the multiple piece back? BL: Yeah, but even a regular flat back that is made up of several pieces, you know, the difficult thing is finding an esthetic balance. RP: Do most clients know what they want before they contact you? BL: Most clients have a problem for me to solve-they are looking for a guitar that combines the best elements of several guitars they have tried. The feel of the neck is a very important issue, especially if you play other guitare regularly. A good luthier can match the feel of a neck to another guitar, which can help avoid hand problems. The size and shape of the body cand have both tonal and ergonomic ramifications to your continued happiness with an instrument. Things like armrests and lowered action can make playing a lot easier and mor fun. Working out the details can take three or four discussions. RP: So how far do you take the idea before you make a guitar? BL: Once I understand what is important to the client, I make a complete list of materials and specifications and drawings of the details for final approval. Some clients want all the details worked out, and some are happy to have me make the choices as the instrument is being constructed. RP: Do you know going into it that based on the wood and the characteristics, the guitar is going to have a brighter tone, a deeper tone, a better high end, a better mid range? BL: Rosewoods make a very round, full sounding guitar; maple produces a quick, bright response; mahogany and koa give a strong mid-range guitar. Spruce with a wide grain makes a boomy sound that favors the bass; with close grain the trebles are better. A maple neck is heave, but helps extend sustain; mahogany is light and helps overall resonance. Combining these factors with bracing options gives the luthier an incredible variety of choices in designing tone. RP: So starting with tone if somebody has a good idea of what they want, you feel really comfortable that you can do it. I think the experience that I have had through the 30 years of building has allowed me to design the tone the way a particular person wants it. You can't have everything. Which qualities are most important to you? The best guitars for recording are mahogany and koa because they have a clear tone without as many overtones as rosewood, but richer than maple. Rosewood are sweet and bass-rich, which makes them beautiful to listen to in person. Sorry, you've gotta choose! RP: Tell me about your arch tops. Are you building many these days? BL: I have always been an experimenter, and my greatest pleasure is to advance the art in some way. Once “perfection” has been achieved, lutherie truly becomes a dying art, and we are just workmen. The tradition of hand workmanship cannot be beat. Modern machenery should be used to free the builder from the drudge work so he can use his skills where they are most bebeficial-graduating thicknesses, set-up and the like. Well, generally with arch-tops the materials vary less. For the most part, maple is the defining material for that kind of tone. There is the certain snap and a presence and a good strong mid-range that you get from maple. Mahogany or other woods don't give you the essential quality of the arch-top guitar. The tops you can balance and vary the size and the shape, of course, which all affect the tone. The shape of the instrument is very much a defining characteristic of a luthier's tone. The shape of that top is crucial in the basic tone of an instrument. RP: You've said that every luthier has his distinctive shape. What's yours? BL: It is different from anybody else's. It is not wildly different from a Gibson L5 shape. I don't vary it too much from the concept of a full round lower bout because I think that gives you the best tone; just a circular vibrating membrane. Then, the piece of spruce I select to go along with that is what will give me the tone that is going to be more sustained or richer or brighter. RP: Let's talk about the 2000. What are you trying to accomplish? I've never seen a guitar like that. BL: No doubt! I wanted to make a unique guitar that was a showpiece and a showstopper. I wanted to use the most exotic woods and go as far as I could to advance the TRUE ART of guitar building. This model draws heavily on the past, but puts it in a truly modern context. The mahogany neck is veneered on the back with striped ebony, and runs straight through the neck block. This prevents the neck from bending at the body joint. The soundhole decoration consists of inlaid rings with a delicate interweaving rosette that is cut through the top. The edge of the top is boardered with a chip-carving in an interwoven motif. An ivory spade is inlaid into the spruce at the tailblock like many lutes. The sides are made of five separate pieces of ebony with three-piece purfling spacers. The thin egg-shell structure of the back is very strong and requires no braces. The detail goes on, but overall, the instrument is quite subtle. RP: The tone is phenomenal. BL: The tone is really quite unique. The width of the top is a little over 15 inches, which is slightly bigger than a classical. This medium size profile tends to keep the treble end really clear and bright. RP: Do you see that as a jazz guitar? BL: Yes, I think when you are playing finger style- whether it is jazz or anything- there are different requirements than when you are playing with a pick. You want to make the trebles clear and ringing. Bass is not a problem with most guitars except in its excess. I want a nice warm character in the bass so it sounds rich and full but doesn't overpower the trebles in the key. If the bass is too strong, the player ends up working too hard to make the trebles ring. RP: How do you do that? BL: Because the highly vaulted back encloses a fairly large air volume the bass develops nicely, and the top is small enough so that the trebles are really clear. That's the magical balance of this instrument. The shape of the back makes the guitar project very well too. RP: When does the instrument take on a life of its own? At one point do you know what to do to maximize this instruments potential based on materials? BL: I think those decisions run all the way through the process. When I am thicknessing the wood, I am not dealing with its thickness; I am dealing with the strength and the amount of flexibility that a particular piece of wood has. I am shooting for a strength ratio in the wood not a thickness at all. The top is the real voice of the instrument, and the back and sides are the character of that voice. I spend a lot of time in voicing that top because it is crucial to the whole balance and tone of the instrument. Once I have worked with the top and it flexes in a certain way, the braces are glued on oversize and shaved down little by little until it gets a nice sustained ring. RP: How many guitars do you build a year? BL: At this point I am building 15-18 instruments a year, and the wait is about six to eight months. RP: Each guitar really does have its own personality. BL: Each piece of wood has its own unique properties. Alpine spruce grows in very high altitudes and the grain is very dense and stiff for its weight. Sitka spruce from Alaska gets more moisture and grows faster. It is not as dense and stiff as European. Adirondack spruce is slow growing and is quite dense and springy. Each species of wood has its strengths and weaknesses. RP: Do you have a preference? BL: They each have different properties that are good. If you want a good strong thumpy bass, a wide-grained Sitka spruce is great. If you want a more refined tone, something that has got more of a ring, then something that is a little closer and stiffer is better. I like the Adirondack spruce that is available now. It is really very good. I find the sustain is amazing. RP: Why go to a hand builder? BL: I think one of the main reasons you would go to a hand builder to have something made is because you can design the sound, the feel, and the look of the instrument exactly the way you want it. RP: So how do you help somebody decideon the sound? BL: I think it is important to know what the guitar is going to be mainly used for. If you are playing around the house, you may want something, which is really sweet and intimate. If you play with an acoustic group, then it is useful to know what other instruments you are you playing with to try and find a tone that is going to be unique in the ensemble. If you are playing on stage, you need an instrument which is strong in volume and amplifies well. A louder instrument with good balance is useful if you are playing finger style. Character and expressiveness, with a strong “center” to the tone, is what many jazz players want today. RP: How are your instruments priced? BL: They range from about $3,500 up to $10,000. Lehmann Guitars: Made and Played with Passion!